WASHINGTON DRESSED UP AS A PIRATE

FARAH BRAZIL IS PART OF YOUR FIRM'S NAME. HOW WOULD YOU REGARD BRAZIL FROM ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE - FROM OUTSIDE?
OLIVETTO I don't think Brazil is part of South America. I really don't make the connection with MercoSur. Brazil is something else altogether, much like China. I was in China to give a speech and what surprised me about it is the fact that it is both the world's most ancient and most modern country at once. The Shanghai airport makes the ones in Paris and Barcelona look like third-rate housing projects. The architecture, the grandeur are impressive. I've been to Thailand too, and that's another amazing country. I had the funniest experience... they're famous for tailors who can cut a suit in ten hours. At 10 P.M. I went into a shop that said "Gucci, Zegna, Armani". I asked for an Armani. The tailor brought a catalog and told me to pick the model, the fabric, the lining, the buttons, the tags... I didn't want an Armani tag, so I picked one that said "New Hong Kong Tailor", which annoyed him: "But people will realize it's not an Armani". He said that they had 194 tailors turning out products for big brands and for whomever came into the store, 24 hours a day. Everything on that street is counterfeited. Along a nearby alley, there are open bars, music, fruit, drag queens, open-air kick-boxing rings, people drinking whisky mixed with energy drinks, go-go girl parlors with 80 numbered women and their cell-phone numbers available at the toilet. But, back to your question: I don't think of Brazil as a Third World country - it just has a different way of being a First World one. During the trip I just told you about, I spent a day in Paris. I told my wife: "Do you realize how many times we've listened to Tom Jobim?" People are unmindful of this. Tom is the world's soundtrack. I heard his songs in Shanghai, Saint-Tropez, Paris. Brazil doesn't capitalize upon these things, but, instead, communicates by turning underdevelopment into folklore.

LIMA DO YOU GET TO RELAX IN THESE TRIPS OAR ARE YOU ALWAYS PLUGGED IN?
OLIVETTO I get in touch with the agency every other day, just so I keep track of what's going on. That's the only way I can relax. What really relaxes me is staying home a lot and travelling over weekends. Sometimes I go home on a Friday night and only leave it Monday morning. I spent the past weekend at home, read like mad. My relationship with music is also very relaxing.

LIMA DOES YOUR WIFE COMPLAIN, DOES SHE WISH YOU'D SPEND MORE TIME WITH HER, RELAXING?
OLIVETTO But I do, we have great fun. There's something funny about me... there are two cities on the world where I couldn't possibly live without becoming a total party-freak: Rio de Janeiro and Saint-Tropez. My life would have been entirely different because, since I'm so big on working, I'd have become a professional good-for-nothing if I started lying around too much.... But my wife doesn't complain about it, despite some of my idiosyncrasies. I'm the worst possible companion for a woman during the Olympics, since I'm such a sports-buff and have been known to set the alarm-clock for 4:15 A.M. to see a Slovenian girl throw a javelin - and I demand that she take part in it, too.

FARAH DO YOU HAVE A NEUROSIS, OR A FEAR? PRESSURE AT WORK, COMPETITIVENESS...
OLIVETTO No. I've always been like an airplane being fixed in mid-air. I learned to read very young - I was immobilized from ages four to five, because of a virus I caught that no one could identify... This made a great difference in my life, put me in a privileged position because it enabled me to do so well in school. I was an early reader, an early worker, and everything turned out right for me. Meanwhile, I developed an ability to laugh at myself. Each on of us is born for something, and few people find out what this particular something is. Those who manage to are already ahead. Those who do so early, like I did, are even better off. When I was 17, all that I wanted was to be popular with girls, be Mick Jagger or the national soccer team striker. I realized neither of those could come to be, but that I could write... hence the plane that's fixed in mid-air.

SUZUKI OPEN-SIGNAL TV, THROUGH WHICH A MAJOR SHARE OF PUBLICITY IS BROADCAST, IS INCREASINGLY A PRODUCT FOCUSED ON THE C INCOME CLASS. NO ONE SEEMS TO BE CONCERNED WITH QUALITY STANDARDS, IT'S A DOG-EAT-DOG COMPETITION FOR RATINGS, EVEN GLOBO [BRAZIL'S LEADING TV NETWORK] WAS ONCE MORE PROVOCATIVE... HOW DOES ONE COME UP WITH INTELLIGENT ADVERTS THAT APPEAL TO THE MASSES?
OLIVETTO It's wrong to say that people want bad TV. Brazil is the only country where open TV faced cable and didn't lose ratings - there are still many people who subscribe to cable services only to get clearer soap-opera broadcasts. Open-signal TV and quality don't add up to an either-or situation - which doesn't mean making accessible TV. I believe TV is popular by principle: when people say "no one" is watching, it means there are 200 thousand people tuned. Brazilians are very receptive to publicity. Since publicity is invasive, it has to compete with the programming, which made it gain in quality. What you said is true, though: quality standards have become lower. People may be humble, illiterate, but they're still sensitive. I'm fascinated by popular stuff and believe it possible to make quality popular programming.

LIMA ISN'T IT UP TO PUBLICITY PROFESSIONALS AND COMMUNICATIONS OFFICERS TO DEAL WITH THIS? WHEN THEY BUY INTO THE MEDIA UNINTELLIGENTLY, WITH AN EYE FOR RATINGS ONLY, DON'T THEY AGGRAVATE THE CIRCUMSTANCES?
OLIVETTO Sure they do. The fact is that, in Brazil, you can sell either Bic or Mont-Blanc, there's no middle-ground, and people have opted for the big guns. They go to the popular classes and to high-penetration vehicles. One doesn't exactly expect ideologically-oriented behavior from agencies and professionals - there's something of an immediatist culture, few professionals have a longer-term outlook. And we're complaining at a rather professional level. In Italy, France and Spain, where there are media centers, the criteria for purchasing media space are preposterous, there are ads for children's products at 2:15 A.M... I often say that, in Brazil, we have people who'll by a shoe and only later check their size. The best would be for the creative process to prevail over all the rest. One can't just say "make a 30-second ad and we're cool".

LIMA WHAT ABOUT CLIENTS WHO DON'T NEED ADVERTISEMENT? ARE AGENCIES PREPARED TO GUIDE THEM?
OLIVETTO This would make total sense at W. For instance, about six years ago [clothes-maker] Luigi Bertolli came to us. We drew an analysis and found that their problem wasn't in advertising. "Take your money, open another three stores, then you'll achieve critical mass", we told them. Some people have a natural calling for this kind of reasoning, like Ricardo Guimarães, our partner at Prax [Thymmus, Guimarães's branding agency, is part of the holding company W/Brasil controls]. I'm not aware of any problems our clients may have that can be solved with advertisement alone.

FARAH I HAVE A SENSE THAT JOURNALISTS ARE BECOMING REAL PUBLICITY COPYWRITERS. EVEN ON THE SURPRISING COVERS OF MAGAZINES AND NEWSPAPERS SUCH AS VEJA, FOLHA OR ISTOÉ, WHERE THE CONNECTION WITH READERS IS MADE EXPLICIT, THIS MEANS, IN PRACTICE, SOMETHING VERY SIMPLE: SELLING. DON'T YOU THINK THAT THE MEDIA HAVE BECOME SO CONCERNED WITH VOLUME THAT THEY END UP IN A STRAIGHTJACKET?
OLIVETTO Matinas [Suzuki] can bear witness to this: last year, I went to New Orleans to give a speech on the Folha case, which is considered to be the best in the field of newspapers in the past 15 years. What was fascinating about it was the fact that Folha realized that independent journalism wasn't a simple matter of being nice - it was sound business. The issue is how to catch the reader's attention. Before having a remote control, people have brains. If something is uninteresting, they'll just turn off and that'll be that.


AT AGE 4, DURING CARNIVAL

LIMA PEOPLE SAY "OH, THAT'S PUBLICITY" AS IF THEY MEANT "OH, THAT'S A TRICK". HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE FACT THAT ADVERTISEMENT IS SYNONYMOUS WITH LYING?
OLIVETTO Most adverts made the world over are really bad. Consider a classic example: why is Bombril successful? Because it departed from the classic paradigm of women being idiots that were born to do the dishes. Every woman in the world wants to marry or date a man that's handsome, sophisticated, elegant, rich, intelligent and charming. If a guy were to ask a woman out for dinner and said: "Look how handsome, sophisticated, rich, intelligent and charming I am", she'd reply: "No, you're a conceited jerk". The purpose of advertisement is to make one perceive things for what they really are. There is no single instance of a publicity success in the past 20 years that didn't include truth, emotion, sense of humor, reason. The relationship between publicity and lies is also a result of the fact that the political meaning of propaganda became confused with publicity. I never made ideological or political campaigns.

FARAH AND WOULD YOU, NOW?
OLIVETTO No. And I'd be bad at it if I tried.

SUZUKI ARE POLITICIANS BAD PRODUCTS?
OLIVETTO The problem is that, in order to do a good job, I need professional decisions rather than political ones. I've been consulted by all sorts of candidates. [Former São Paulo Governor and Mayor] Maluf asked me and I said: "I won't do a campaign for you, but I'd like you to do mine", and invited him to be on the advert for [shoe] Vulcabrás 752.

FARAH BRIZOLLA, TOO...
OLIVETTO They comprised the pair, the right and the left. I believe that, were I to go into political campaigning, I'd be bad at it. In fact, W has a problem: when it goes bad, it's not by a little: it really sucks.

HAVING FUN IN SHANGHAI, IN 2001: "BRAZIL IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT, LIKE CHINA"

SUZUKI DID YOU VOTE FOR [LABOR PARTY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE] LULA?
OLIVETTO I voted against [subsequently impeached] Collor. I voted for [former São Paulo Governor] Covas in the first round and for Lula in the second. In the subsequent election, I voted for [incumbent president] Cardoso.

SUZUKI WOULD YOU VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN?
OLIVETTO Not at present.

SUZUKI WHAT ABOUT CIRO GOMES [A CANDIDATE IN THE UPCOMING 2002 ELECTIONS]?
OLIVETTO No. I think he's awfully commonplace. There's something about him that brings Collor to mind and bothers many people - myself included.

LIMA TRADITIONAL BRAZILIAN AGENCIES ARE UNDERGOING A CURIOUS CHANGE. DPZ, FOR INSTANCE, HAS LOST THE ALPARGATAS, RIACHUELO AND GOLF ACCOUNTS IN LESS THAN A YEAR. NIZAN GUANAES HAS LEFT THE ADVERTISEMENT AREA NOT BECAUSE OF ANY FAILURE BUT, PERHAPS, BECAUSE HE WAS AFTER A MORE TRUTHFUL, EBULLIENT ENVIRONMENT, THE EDITORIAL ONE. DON'T YOU FIND THESE DATA UNSETTLING?
OLIVETTO Certainly. I believe there will always be room for two or three major domestic agencies that are rather good and represent the cutting-edge. I'm sure that, no matter what kind of global marketing there may be, communication will always have to be local. If it wants to be effective and efficient, communication has to be local and, therefore, conceived by people who speak the local lingo. The best compliment I ever received was made by Márcio Moreira, the current chairman of McCann-Erikson: "You've got a finger on the pulse of Brazil". W's only failure in the past 15 years was the agency we set up in Chicago: it lasted just for a while, we lost little money, and that was that. Lawrence, who ran the agency and is a brilliant professional, called me one day: "You'd have to live here for this agency is to work". I answered: "No, I'd have to have been born there".

SUZUKI SINCE YOU MENTIONED A COMPLIMENT: ARE YOU VAIN?
OLIVETTO My being vain is the obvious truth. I believe this may be the reason: since I attained great visibility very early on, the whole thing turned into a snowball I could no longer control. May ability to laugh at this became greater than people's imaginary universe could accept. Some other things led to this, like the ties I used to wear... Aside from that, there's the fact that I consider myself humble, but not modest - my work is good and I don't think it's wrong to talk about it. I love and demand being taken seriously, though I myself don't do it.

LIMA DO YOU LIKE SEEING OLD PICTURES OF YOU, BACK FROM WHEN YOU WORE THOSE TIES?
OLIVETTO I don't look good in photographs. I don't watch my interviews and rarely read them. It feels a little like a séance, like it's someone else. There's another issue I've recently rationalized after the whole Fernando de Morais book thing [Olivetto commissioned a biography of his agency from the journalist]. There's something one might call coherence - but one's enemies would dub stubbornness. When you believe in certain things, they tend to repeat themselves. For example, in some of my interviews I felt like a recording of myself. It feels crazy. The experience with Fernando has been interesting, because it's so exhaustive. The book is his alone.

LIMA YOU'LL TURN 50 THIS MONTH, YOUR AGENCY TURNED 15, YOUR SON IS ALL GROWN UP AND MAKING MOVIES... HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH AGING
OLIVETTO I think that when one's really busy, things just keep going.

WITH HIS SON, HOMERO: "I'M A WAY COOL DAD"

FARAH IN ALL CIVILIZATIONS, ELDERS WERE ALWAYS LEADERS. NOW, ADVERTISEMENT ITSELF ARGUES THAT ELDERS KNOW NOTHING, THAT ONLY THE YOUNG PEOPLE DO...
OLIVETTO What we have nowadays is early adulthood and extended youth. When I was a kid, a 14 year-old girl was a child: now they are women. A 40 year-old woman was a matron: now they are babes. This is interesting and explains the successful sales of sneakers, yogurt, gyms. I'm fascinated with having hanging out with young people all the time, it borders on excess. I'm closely associated with youth, but I use some of my older friends as a living benchmark. People who run music companies usually ask ,when someone new turns up: "what can you do that's really new?" and "is it interesting for people between 12 and 19?" If the guy can answer "yes" to both questions, a new relevant artist has been found. Do there's no way one can feel age mounting in this business.




ACTOR CARLOS MORENO IMPERSONATES CHE GUEVARA AND OTHER CHARACTERS [BELOW] IN THE LONGEST-LASTING PUBLICITY CAMPAIGN EVER, ON THE AIR SINCE 1978.

LIMA HOW DID YOU FEEL WHEN NIZAN, WHO WAS CONSIDERED TO BE YOUR MAIN COMPETITOR, LEFT PUBLICITY FOR THE INTERNET? WERE YOU RELIEVED, ENVIOUS, OR DID YOU FEEL LIKE JOINING HIM?
OLIVETTO I wasn't surprised when Nizan left the business. His field was never publicity, specifically. He's from the communications and management universe, even from politics. But I think publicity misses him. I'm a natural born publicity professional, I like to refresh the term "publicity". Boni invited me to be a creation director at [TV network] Globo twice in the 1980s. I refused for two reasons. I didn't want to leave publicity. And I'd have to go to Rio, and I know myself well enough to realize that might not be such a good idea...

SUZUKI DON'T YOU FEEL LIKE DOING SOMETHING THAT RELATES TO MUSIC?
OLIVETTO In my relationship with content, I've done lots of things for a long time: I fiddle with cinema, music, we're going to have a radio show, W has produced two albums for Warner - the W Hits -, there's the Bombril book, the large-format comic-book that was sold in newsstands, the TV special that Conspiração made for our tenth anniversary... But my thing is really publicity, and what I'm concerned with in the publicity business it to keep turning it around all the time.

LIMA ARE YOU A COOL DAD? WHAT DID YOU GET FOR FATHERS' DAY [THE INTERVIEW TOOK PLACE THE DAY AFTER FATHERS' DAY]?
OLIVETTO Two bottles of Amarguinha ["a magnificent Portuguese almonds liqueur", according to Olivetto] - Homero knew I'd run out. I'm way cool as a dad. The good thing about Homero and I is that we're at practically the same age: we like the same girls, with the difference that he actually gets some [laughing]. We're at very similar stages. And I, strangely enough, am not very involved with presents on set dates. By the way, I love giving presents.

LIMA DO YOU MEET WITH YOUR BUSINESS PARTNERS FOR FUN, LIKE GOING TO THE MOVIES OR TRAVELLING?
OLIVETTO We have a funny relationship, our routine is crazy. At W, we have principles. One of the funniest things we did during the agency's first year was a bronze bust of me. Beyond vanity, it was obviously in jest. We had the bust done and made an announcement: the founder's principles. [laughing] The first principle was: "Begin at 8 A.M." [in Portuguese, the same word is used for "principle" and "to begin"], because people were coming in late, dammit.

FARAH ARE YOU IN THERAPY?
OLIVETTO Therapy? Never. I'm pretentious enough not to.

SUZUKI HOW'S SUCCESSION DEALT WITH AT W?
OLIVETTO We have a radical guideline at W: no relatives are allowed to work there. If my son or Gabriel's or Javier's want to go into advertisement, let them call [competitor agency] Talent. We're trying to build people and that's not an easy task. Fortunately, we have ample time to do it. W's succession process would be a done deal if, in 15 years, it didn't have Brazil's lowest personnel turnover: 413 people have worked there. The few that left did so to get into business by themselves - people like Nizan, Afonso [Serra, Nizan's former partner at DM9DDB], Camila [Franco, who came up with Valisére's famous "first bra" ad], who would be part of the succession process. But we'll do it.

LIMA WHAT GAVE YOU THE IDEA FOR THE BOOK?
OLIVETTO This is what I think will be the interesting thing about Fernando's book: ten years with ten thousand people behind them. What gave me the idea? I think everything's become too sedate in the communications business and in Brazilian society in general. We're undergoing a trivialization process. So we thought of making things sounder. I'd just reread Gay Talese's The Kingdom and the Power [which tells the story of the New York Times] - I had read it in English, back in the 70s. I'm not stupid to try and compare W/Brasil and the New York Times, but what's great about The Kingdom and the Power is the fact that it tells the tale of American journalism. In its 15 years, W has collected interesting stories to tell. Many people don't know that my association with CGK [the Swiss-German advertising agencies group] was the world's first association between an individual and a corporation - and later became an industry standard. It was also the first time someone's calling card said : "Chairman and Creative Director". So, if a book is to be written, it must be one hell of a book. I told Fernando: "Feel free". This is why the book will be called W/Brasil - a Semi-Authorized Biography. The authorized part is the one I suggested. The semi part is because he can d with it whatever he wants.


AT CANNES, RECEIVING ONE OF THE EARLY LIONS AMONG HIS 47

LIMA ARE YOU A BIG SLEEPER? AT WHAT TIME DO YOU WAKE UP AND GO TO WORK?
OLIVETTO I sleep little, five or six hours a night. I read from midnight until 2 A.M. I go to bed at around 2:30 or 3 and am at the agency by 9.

LIMA YOU SAID THAT YOU SPEND A LOT OF TIME AT HOME. DOING WHAT?
OLIVETTO I listen to music, have people over, friends, couples... We've done crazy things, but I keep my personal, life, my house, out of it. I watch a little TV, interviews and sports shows, mostly. At W the TV is always on, I watch tennis almost all the time.

LIMA WHAT WERE YOU READING THIS PAST WEEKEND?
OLIVETTO I started to read Nara Leão [the biography of singer Nara Leão, by Sérgio Cabral], which I had brought over from Rio. I'm also finishing Mário Reis [biography by journalist Luís Antônio Giron], which I had dropped earlier. In the morning I read São Paulo's two newspapers and Rio's two. Also Valor, Gazeta Mercantil, Veja and Dinheiro. I have a very high informational load in terms of magazines and newspapers. We have lots of magazines at home, but lately I haven't had the patience to read Wallpaper and the like, which I think are too much like catalogs of star-struck socialites. I do read the New Yorker.

FARAH WHAT'S YOUR OPINION ABOUT BRAZIL'S FUTURE AND ABOUT THE CURRENT CRISIS?
OLIVETTO By now, everybody has realized that there's no such thing as leaving money in one place and are channeling their investments into productive activities. Productive investments have had greater return than simple financial ones. But I lack technical knowledge of that and I don't feel like it'll pass soon. The current year has been particularly bad.

LIMA YOU SAID THAT YOU NEVER LIKED WORKING WITH POLITICS. WERE YOU EVER FACED WITH AN ETHICAL DILEMMA?
OLIVETTO Few, as compared to many of my colleagues, because I spent 14 years at DPZ, an agency that gave me special treatment. DPZ made campaigns for the government and allowed me not to get involved with that.

WITH HIS WIFE, PATRÍCIA: "MY SIXTH SENSE IS WORTH A BATTALION OF WOMEN"

LIMA WHAT ABOUT CIGARETTE PUBLICITY?
OLIVETTO I did lots of that at DPZ. I'm a smoker and I'm not proud of it. I don't smoke when my photo is being taken and on TV interviews, I know kids will be watching. At W we had, for a while, the account for Plaza, a Souza Cruz brand. The only policy we have at W is not to get involved in political propaganda. The problem with tobacco publicity is that, in most cases, it shows little regard for people's intelligence. People don't want to be patronized, they want to hear the truth. Cigarette adverts are way behind as regards the social framework.


LIMA AND WHAT'S YOUR STAND ON THE LEGALIZATION OF DRUGS? THE MAGAZINE THE ECONOMIST RECENTLY ADVOCATED FULL LEGALIZATION...
OLIVETTO I'm for legalization. The only caveat I see is that there are so many priorities, so many things that are more urgent, that, when we speak of developed-economy-like expenditures, they sound vain as compared to the problems we have here. The last drug I had was a hashish toke when I was turning 19. I smoked marijuana rather frequently from 16 to 18, but I didn't really like the way it smelled. I took hashish and acid. Acids scared me, because of a book I read by John Cashadon, LSD, that addressed stuff like chromosome changes, etc. I didn't do well with the stuff, that's the truth. I never tried cocaine, I always thought it was a right-wing drug, had implications of false brilliance, of a delusion of power.

LIMA HOW DID YOU DECIDE TO QUIT?
OLIVETTO At 19 I was already working. One day I woke up and thought: I don't deal well with this, I'm too dependent on being conscious. On the other hand, I'm very excitable, so any artificial additives... I decided to quit. I drink almost every night - not during the days, but I do drink almost every night - and I think alcohol is a drug, too. Lately I've been into champagne. I've grown sick of distillates. I drank whisky for a long time. Although I've experimented with scotch and energy drinks.

LIMA WHAT IS W/BRASIL'S OBJECTIVE AS A COMPANY?
OLIVETTO Our internal objective is to have the highest level of happiness per capita. We must be a company that's aware that it's better to be co-author of a lot of brilliant things than the sole creator of a lot of junk. We must build the new field leaders. This is a good match with the goal of making publicity that enters Brazilian pop culture and is in the pop culture area. I have a survey that may come in handy for Fernando Morais: did you know that the sentence "o primeiro a gente nunca esquece" [you never forget the first one] is the most repeated sentence in Brazilian publicity in the past 30 years? With variations such as Ayrton Senna's "you never forget your first Ferrari", or Waltinho Salles's "you never forget your fist Oscar nomination".... I like to think that someday W can become a thing onto itself, that the founders may be gone but the company will remain on its own.

LIMA THIS DEFINITION DOESN'T SHOW ANY SOCIAL CONCERNS ON THE PART OF YOUR COMPANY.
OLIVETTO Years ago, we found that there was a tax that, instead of paying to the government, could be used to sponsor an athlete. Then we discovered Gustavo Borges, who was virtually unknown back then, and went to talk to his father, Mr. Jovino: "We'd like to sponsor Gustavo, because we'd rather give the money to him than to the government". He answered: "What will he have to do?" "Swim, swim like mad, that's all" [laughing]. Then Mr. Jovino went: "But don't get your hopes up, he has no chance in the upcoming Olympic games". Gustavo went and got a bronze medal. We might even get an ad out of that: "The only publicity agency that wins prizes even in the Olympics". We were also the pioneer sponsors of the return of Brazilian cinema, with Ugo Giorgetti's Sábado. We're a minor sponsor of Central Station. The copyrights over the Bombril book were given over to Projeto Aprendiz and we're helping Gilberto [Dimenstein] in other initiatives, too.

FARAH ARE YOU RELIGIOUS?
OLIVETTO No, but I like Brazil's ecumenism. The other day I realized something interesting about the publicity environment. Did you ever notice that Brazil is the last country where beautiful women can be seen on bus stops? Everywhere else, beautiful women stay where the rich people are. Miscegenation accomplished something great in Brazil, there are people who have no money, but are beautiful.

LIMA BEFORE MARRIAGE, WERE YOU A LADIES' MAN, OR ARE YOU STILL?
OLIVETTO If I still were, I'd have to lie [laughing[. But I always liked women a lot, I have no trouble relating to women. My sixth sense is worth a battalion of women, I'm very intuitive. I was married to my first wife, my son's mother, for a long time, it was a great marriage.

SUZUKI YOUR LEAVING DPZ, 15 YEARS AGO, NEEDED SOME TIME TO BE FULLY ABSORBER BY THE AGENCY. IN RETROSPECT, HOW DO YOU ANALYZE THAT?
OLIVETTO When I divorced my first wife, I felt that I'd become involved with another one, my current wife. I mentioned this to my former wife and we separated as a result. As for leaving DPZ, I admit that I wouldn't be able to deal with the pressures to stay if things had gone like: "I'll be leaving in a while". W is obviously a result of that. I even thing W has become better than DPZ, but will never be more important. There were many things I believed to be crucial and which I couldn't do at DPZ - I might have been their homecoming queen, but I didn't own the place. When you start your own agency, it's like standing on the peak of one mountain and seeing another mountain right in front of you, with a 1,000 foot chasm in between. The chasm is only a few inches wide, all you need to do to cross is stretch a bit - but you don't see that because you're concentrating on the chasm. Truly, the only way I could have gotten out was all of a sudden.

FARAH WAS IT DIFFICULT TO LEAVE? NOT DPZ, BUT YOUR WIFE [LAUGHING]...
OLIVETTO It's very difficult to leave someone you've invested so much in. Every honest separation from someone you care about is difficult. It is possible to be with one person, become interested in someone else and, in a society where only one marriage at a time is acceptable, having to leave the first person, even liking them. Strangely enough, the same happened to me in business, leaving a company I liked a lot to start something I thought might be better.

LIMA WHAT WAS IT LIKE TO BE MARRIED AND FALL IN LOVE WITH ANOTHER WOMAN?
OLIVETTO Simple: Patrícia, who's now a partner at Conspiração, was then a partner at another production company. I met her and - you know, when you feel like asking a woman out for lunch, to talk to her?

LIMA DID YOU HAVE TO WAIT LONG?
OLIVETTO Yes. These things are hard if you don't have much time. It's easier if you have lots of time in your hands.

LIMA I READ, THE OTHER DAY, THAT TIME IS THE MOST OBVIOUS SIGN OF WEALTH... DO YOU HAVE MORE TIME TO DO WHAT YOU LIKE OR ARE YOU STILL A SLAVE TO YOUR JOB?
OLIVETTO I'm still a slave, but I have more say in how to use my time. I'll add another sign of wealth: traveling with no luggage. Traveling without luggage is great, it's a reason to become rich in and of itself.

LIMA SPEAKING OF LUGGAGE, PERSONAL EFFECTS, WHAT IS YOUR MOST PRIZED POSSESSION?
OLIVETTO An object? I have a close relationship with arts, certain paintings and sculptures. I own a painting by [German painter] Anselm Kiefer that makes me want to take it with me out on the street. I sometimes miss it.

LIMA WHERE DO YOU LIKE TO GO IN SÃO PAULO?
OLIVETTO I go to [restaurant] Antiquarius often, they even named a cod dish after me, it's nice to see how they care. I go to Rodeio, to Vecchio Torino, Jardim de Napoli, Gero, Fasano. Also places like Frangó, Bar do Léo. I went to see [samba legend] Bezerra da Silva at Bar Brahma last Saturday. It was eally crowded - but I'd gone to see Bezerra, not the crowd.

LIMA WERE YOU POOR IN YOUR YOUTH?
OLIVETTO Middle-class. I went to good schools, I was one of those people whose dads work like crazy so they can afford to give their children a VW bug when they get into college.

WITH HIS SON HOMERO, HOMERO'S GIRLFRIEN, AND HIS WON WIFE, PATRÍCIA: "WE LIKE THE SAME GIRLS, WITH THE DIFFERENCE THAT HE [HOMERO] ACTUALLY GETS SOME"

LIMA WHEN DID YOU MAKE MORE MONEY: NOW OR AS AN EMPLOYEE?
OLIVETTO My salary was the best in the business from day one to the day when I quit. In W's early days, all the money I made went into buying out CGK's share. Then there were very profitable seasons for us and for publicity in general, until around 1996, '97. Then we started to reinvest, to create the holding company, buy into other businesses. Now, if you count all of the Prax agencies and add the promotions agency, we only lose to the Interpublic group [one of the world's greatest communications and marketing groups].

LIMA WHAT ABOUT YOU DRESSING STYLE? YOU LOOK A LOT MORE SOMBER IN YOUR RECENT PICTURES THAN YOU DID.
OLIVETTO I think it's only natural, in time. The fact is: as I was in a field where ties aren't mandatory, I never regarded them as most men do, who have to wake up and wear one every day. I was very young and started using ties for fun, so I started buying funny ones. Then people started to think that I liked ties more than I really did. I started getting ties as presents. And became a collector.

LIMA YOU MUST HAVE BEEN THE OBJET OF ENVY AND, LIKE MOST PEOPLE, MUST HAVE FELT ENVY YOURSELF, AT TIMES.
OLIVETTO I deal well with people who are envious of me. I'd go insane if I didn't. It's the same with things I choose to simply ignore. I've heard different versions of my life, things I did, places I went to, women I've screwed, things that never happened and I find fascinating. I sometimes say that I'd like to meet this guy. I wasn't even in Brazil for the past five Carnivals, and in each of these five years I've heard people say that I was one of the wildest people at this or that VIP box. As for feeling envious myself, that would suck, what with all that life has given me. I have what I call healthy envy, when I see very good work: "How come I didn't think of that".

LIMA IN SUCH A SUCCESSFUL CAREER, DID YOU MAKE ENEMIES, PEOPLE YOU DON'T SPEAK TO?
OLIVETTO There may be people that I don't like but whom I respect. There are also people I neither like nor respect. I'm also not stupid, so I won't pretend certain things never happened. For example, when I left DPZ, I didn't like the way Roberto [Duailibi, tghe "D" in DPZ] reacted and I like being around him. But it'd be ridiculous not to admit that I learned a lot from him.

LIMA SPEAKING OF NO LOVE LOST BETWEEN PEOPLE. TOSCANI CABE TO BRAZIL AND WAS IN THE HISTORIC RODA VIDA TALK-SHOW, WHICH BECAME VERY UNCOMFORTABLE FOR FRANCESC PETIT [PETIT, THE "P" IN DPZ, CRITICIZED TOSCANI AND WAS HARSHLY ATTACKED BY THE ITALIAN PUBLICITY EXECUTIVE]. NOW TOSCANI LEFT BENETTON. LOOKS LIKE A NOT VERY HAPPY ENDING...
OLIVETTO The episode has to be seen for what it really was. I know Toscani in person, he's a nice person. In that case, Petit was right, it was the way he put things that was wrong. To begin with, Toscani was and is a great photographer, I've know him from the time when he worked for Harper's Bazaar. When it comes to his corny metaphors, like "publicity is a corpse covered in Chanel", one has to come out and say it: he's not much of a publicity professional, but he's an even worse sociologist. But Petit is just not good at this kind of thing. What really happened? Toscani inherited something called United Colors of Benetton and, with it, a vain businessman called Luciano Benetton, who gave him a free rein. I once ran into him in Cuenta [Spain] and said: "I realize you don't like publicity, because you're Italian and Italian publicity is very bad. But there is good, consequential, responsible publicity in England, in Brazil". The whole episode, in reality, is the fact that Toscani came up with a trick. A low-effectiveness one, at that. So much so that it failed.

SUZUKI I WAS AT THAT ISSUE OF RODA VIVA AS A MEDIATOR AND, ANYWHERE I WENT, PEOPLE CAME TO ASK ME ABOUT THE SHOW. WHAT WAS IT THAT GOT TO PEOPLE THE WAY IT DID?
OLIVETTO In fact, mass publicity is low-quality. Whenever anyone calls that for what it is, people identify with them. Second, there's a fake candidness to his discourse that sometimes gets to people. This adds to a little glamour he has. Toscani, ever the smart one , played the good-guy role. This also took place at a time when publicity was becoming a popular topic, even appearing in college-admission tests, all sorts of things. In fact, I think publicity has become more of a topic than it deserves.